Marley Dias Speaks on Her Literary Activism and Experience at Harvard

WORDS WITH WORD$ INTERVIEW #8

PHOTO CREDIT: Courtesy of Marley Dias

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Yo, it’s the Pope, 1000WORD$.

Below is a legendary conversation between myself and Marley Dias, an American activist and writer who first gained recognition for her #1000BlackGirlBooks campaign. Right now, Dias is a first-year student at Harvard.

In 2015, at just 11 years old, Dias launched the campaign to collect 1,000 books featuring Black girl protagonists, which she felt were underrepresented in children's literature. She was inspired to start the campaign after growing tired of reading books featuring mostly white male protagonists in school. Her campaign quickly gained national attention and momentum, and she surpassed her goal of collecting 1,000 books within a few months. She donated the books to libraries and schools in need, and her efforts sparked a broader conversation about diversity in children's literature.

Since then, Dias has continued to be an outspoken advocate for diversity and inclusivity in media and education. She has spoken at various events and conferences, including recently around the Boston area. In 2018, she published her own book, "Marley Dias Gets It Done: And So Can You!", which is a guide for young activists who want to make a difference in their communities. She is an incredible person that I hope you guys can get to know a little better after reading.

THIS IS WORDS WITH WORD$.

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1000WORD$: My name is 1000WORD$. Welcome to Words With Word$. I got the legendary Marley Dias here with me. How are you doing, Marley? 

Marley Dias: Hi. I'm good. How are you? 

1000WORD$: Good, good. Let the people know where you from. 

Marley Dias: West Orange, New Jersey. Jersey represent. 

1000WORD$: East Coast. How was it growing up out there in Jersey?

Marley Dias: Honestly, really fun. I was born in Philly. My mom did her post-grad in Michigan, so I was there with her and then we moved to New Jersey when I was young, but I love it. I think I have a lot of attachments to Philly more as a city, like culturally just because my parents met there. They grew up there. But I love Jersey and I think Jersey Club, especially I wish I heard more here [in Boston] because there's a huge party and rap scene that is not talked about from Jersey.

1000WORD$: Who are some of the artists who you grew up listening to from that are from Jersey?

Marley Dias: Well, now at least I love Bandmanrill and like all those music, but I guess like SZA, Lauryn Hill, they're from my county in my area. We have a lot of pride for Lauryn Hill. She lives actually the town over from for me.

1000WORD$: Nice. Did you go to any shows growing up, like any concerts?

Marley Dias: I didn't go to any because my parents were very, like, "You have your own time to explore whatever." But I got to go to The Roots Picnic last year, which was really, really fun. And my mom actually lived next door to Tariq Trotter, Black Thought, So he's like a really close family friend. And he actually started a foundation with my mom in 2010. So he's just been a huge force in my life and he was like, "When you go to your first real concert I want it to be The Picnic."

1000WORD$: That’s so fire. Shoutout to Black Thought. 

Marley Dias: He’s the best. He's really committed to having young people be a part of these movements and making change through rap. I feel like being around that at a young age influenced part of what I do now.

1000WORD$: Growing up and going to school, how was the culture at your school? 

Marley Dias: I went to a school that was majority Black, it was about 60% Black, my local public high school. The issue was that we were still being policed in a way. My last year I helped organize a protest for a durag ban that we had in our school where kids were getting two hour detentions for wearing bonnets, head, scarves, whatever. It felt like even though we had this very diverse, lively community, it was like a lot of white people that were in power that we're still trying to be like, "You need to be professional, you can't sag, you can't wear this, you can't wear that." So the culture itself, like the individuals, and the community was so diverse, so fun, so loving, so like, just music and happiness-centered, you know? But in a way, whenever it got to, "rowdy" or whatever, we were often times kind of pushed very dramatically away from that.

1000WORD$: So you started the 1000 Black Girl Books Campaign, right? 

Marley Dias: Yes, I did. 

1000WORD$: What inspired that?

Marley Dias: So the story is that I was in my I was in my fifth grade class, and I had the best teacher ever. We would go play Foursquare, get extra recess, do all these nice things. And I loved him, but I noticed that the books we were reading all had white boys and their dogs as the main character. And there was no space for diverse stories, or, in my case, particularly black girls stories that showed, you know, people that look like me and our experiences. So I came to my mom and I was ranting to her when I was like, 10. And she said, "Well, what are you going to do about it?" Because she's like, "We can get you these books at home. We can go to the bookstore and buy you them, but there are hundreds of kids in your district that can't afford those books, and don't have parents that are able to consciously bring diversity into the home." So she wanted me to do something about it. And I decided that I was going to collect 1000 books where black girls were the main character. And now seven years later, I've collected 14,000 books and have a free online database. I've written my own book with Scholastic in 2018, about how kids can give back and you know, be critical in their communities to make change that helps all of us. 

1000WORD$: Wow that is so impressive. That is amazing, man. I want to congratulate you on that. Thank you. I appreciate it. Because when I was growing up and reading books, there was it was just, you know, white characters... even when it came down to toys, you know what I mean? So knowing that you spoke up about something like that, at such an early age is so beautiful to see. I salute you and congratulate you on that. And now fast forward, what else are you working on? You said you started a protest about the durag ban. And that was at school right?

Marley Dias: Yeah, that was in school that was like, not to say it was separate, but that was like me and my friends wanting to do something about it, you know, like a community based issue. But I guess now, or how 1000 Black Girl Books has expanded is first, the publishing of my own book in 2018, which is a guide for kids and parents about how, how can we like, make sure that kids feel comfortable to say when they notice these things because a lot of kids don't. They think, "Is it my fault? Is it just that I have a bad teacher? Is this a bad apples sort of experience?" But we know and history has shown us that the stories of people of color have been constantly erased. That's not the fault of one child, who might think it's theirs. I've also executive produced and hosted a Netflix show called Bookmarks, celebrating Black voices, which is a 12 episode series of Black celebrities reading books by Black authors. And that's one of the projects I'm really proud of, because it's free online as well on YouTube, so that teachers can use it in their classroom, they don't have to pay. And I now I guess I'm a student at Harvard in my first year, and I've been writing about Arts with The Crimson and I'm really excited because I've gotten to connect with people like Ryan, but I want to do a lot more here to just study culture and to understand like, how does music, sports, entertainment, like... What messages do they send about who we are as a people? And how can we make them better, so that people can see themselves and also learn more and hopefully lose some of their biases in the process? 

1000WORD$: Growing up did you ever think you was gonna go to Harvard?

Marley Dias: No, I didn't. I thought I was gonna go to Yale. I thought there was a better environment for me, but then once I got into Harvard, I was like, "No, you gotta go all the way. I gotta go to the top top." Like, I wanted to go somewhere that had a name that would like, you know, just take me to a lot of places. But, when I was a child, I was more interested or like, even in middle school, I thought I was going to be like a writer and just not go to college or like go to a small school. And as my work started to get bigger, I was like, maybe it would be good to go to a place like this. So I can learn about and observe the people here and bring that stuff back to my community. So like, my mindset, I guess being here is like, every famous person's child that I meet every like famous researcher, every book, like I'm trying to really take it all in, so that once I leave this environment, I can spread those ideas and lessons, not just to myself.

1000WORD$: As far as like hip-hop, what was your first memory of hip-hop?

Marley Dias: My first memory I have to go either Planet Rock or "The Message" like my dad loves the message. So he would just be like, "Broken glass everywhere." That is such a like... it's stuck in my head. But first time I remember loving rap is that to this day, I have like the "Humpty Dance" by Digital Underground. That was my favorite rap song. Like, I just love them for some reason. And it's... the lyrics are so bad. Like everything about it is not like, representative of me. But that was my like, "Yo, this is like, this is my music."

1000WORD$: I remember when that song came out, like I didn't even know what was going on. I just remember them dancing, he had the nose on. I was like, "Oh, this is kind of fire." Yeah. So being at such a young age and thinking the way that you think, do you try to educate some of your friends? Because I feel like you was like the friend that knew what was going on.

Marley Dias: I think I have been that friend that tries to... I really try to make sure that my friends especially when we were in high school, and like we had security guards and like police officers in my school, like letting them know when people try to dress code you and when people try to tell you what to do... They have been indoctrinated into these beliefs. The idea that you wearing a bonnet or you wearing a hoodie makes you a criminal is not a real thing. It is racist for people to say that to you. And I think it's really important to validate my friends in those experiences, and especially having a lot of friends that came out in middle school or came out in high school... My mom's a sociologist, so she really studies society and how it functions and how groups of people come up with these ideas and how they spread. I think she just helped me be the type of person that when I see something wrong, I have to say something or I have to let the people know that are victims of those things that they are not alone. And I think it makes me kind of like the "mom friend" in some ways, because I'm like, "No, no, don't worry, like it's all because of this event that happened in 1960, whatever, whatever." But, it is true. And I think spreading that or letting it be known to other people is really important, especially for young black kids.

1000WORD$: Definitely. As far as my experience goes, I didn't know what racism was till I went to high school. In my community, everybody was just poor. You know, my mom was Ecuadorian and my father's Honduran and I never met my father. I lived in the Bronx with my mom for all my life. And we was all just poor going to public school. And you know, it was just a culture. But when you go step out the hood, and you try to get a job somewhere, and then you start seeing how people categorize you and look at you, it's like, "Damn, am I ashamed? Am I ashamed of being where I'm from? Because of my lack of resources, you know what I mean?" No, I shouldn't be ashamed. You know, that's how I used to think back then. But I've met more people along the journey. Everybody's just, we should just all just try to survive and live. Everybody has this programming, right? We're all trying to shift and change the narrative. I never thought I would talk to anybody from Harvard. I've never had a friend that went to Harvard until I met Ryan. And I feel like... What lead us here to this point? You a legend, man! You are just... just congratulations to you. You're way ahead of a lot of people. What are you working on next?

Marley Dias: Next for me is I want to keep writing. So at the end of last semester, I was able to come out with and like help create this organization called Feminist and made a zine that was bringing together all types of art. And I was able to be the editor for that, and, you know, bring the pieces together and write about my own experiences with how Black women have been excluded from movements that are about women's progress. We've got to think about all the different types of identities that come with being a woman. And I think I just want to keep going down that path, like making sure that I can use like, the way I like whether it's like through speaking or through writing, just communicating and letting these things be known. And I also work with the National Education Association. So I'm an ambassador for Read Across America. And it was was actually on March 2, that we like... was the official day. I went to Cambridge at Rindge and Latin, which is the high school right nearby, and I spoke there. I want to really spread my roots in both Cambridge and in Boston, because kids in Cambridge are very privileged. And they have a lot of resources that other kids in like Central or metro Boston don't, and trying to get more involved with the schools there and support them. So donating more books in Boston, coming to speak more. And knowing that I'm gonna be here for the next four years that this is my community now. And a lot of the work I've done is centered in Jersey. I think the goal is for it to translate here.

1000WORD$: That’s how I feel. When I came over here to Massachusetts, I feel like the hip-hop scene out here, you know... We don't know that much about at least the underground hip-hop scene out here. I've met a bunch of dope artists out here that I feel like the rest of the world should get to know, so I feel like I want to introduce you to some artists too. 

Marley Dias: Yeah, I would love that. 

1000WORD$: Yeah, I would definitely love to introduce you to some artists and I feel like connecting you with them would be so amazing. Keisha Plum. Che Noir. What are you going to Harvard for?

Marley Dias: I think I'm going to study sociology, which my mom studies as well. I want to learn more about inequality. But I'm also thinking about, like, law school, maybe in the future, I have a long, long time for you to decide that. But if I'm like, I feel like being a lawyer would be kind of like... I'd be overpowered, you know what I mean? Like, I just, I just have too much if I was a lawyer, but it would be amazing. It would be amazing, but I think like a whole other side to this and the work I do is that it is all on me. Like this is something that I came up with and now that I've turned 18 like, if I want something, I gotta go get it. It's a lot more stress. So I kind of have to wait, like I'm interested, but I feel like writing might be a path that gives me more freedom than being a lawyer and you got someone else's life in your hands in that way that I wouldn't if I was just telling other people's stories. I think I want to just keep making sure that the experiences of low-income Black and Indigenous and LatinX communities are brought to the center. Especially people here don't understand, like... people here are so wealthy they don't actually or have not ever interacted with people that are living below the poverty line or have lived their whole lives below the poverty line. That lack of perspective is really harmful. Like, if the people at Harvard are looking to be the people that are presidents, and that change the world that do these great things. You have to actually interact and know the communities that you're engaging with. And it's really, I think a lot of people feel really entitled to think that they know everything without having ever, like, heard someone that speaks broken English, or have been to a home that has four kids in one bedroom, like kids have never seen those realities. And I think for me here, I want to make sure that they are exposed to those things. They understand that most of America lives that way. Most Americans don't have college degrees, most Americans don't have high school diplomas. And we have to use our privileges to make sure that we are not the special ones, the great ones, but that every person in America can just love their life and not feel like they're surviving. But feel like they're enjoying their experience here.

1000WORD$: Word. Wow. That is so that is so inspiring to hear and so amazing to hear. A lot of the kids where I'm from, the resources is tough. And I feel like they don't think places like Harvard or Yale or things like that are achievable. You know what I mean? They feel like, it's, it's so far out of their reach. And maybe the way it is designed, because they think that just because you live in the hood, it's bad. And then when the hood gets a little better, they raise the price up and they force you out, you know. So there's not a balance for anyone. You know what I mean? Hopefully, you know what a person like you and the people like us sitting here could try to educate the people on the culture. You know what I mean? Like we have people that are in charge of the culture that don't know anything about the culture that just base it off clothes that are not even made in the hood. You got a bunch of street wearing kids that never been in the street? 

Marley Dias: Exactly. Yeah.

1000WORD$: They never been in an environment where you have to split a meal with three of your cousins, or you can't pay the rent bill this month, or you can't start school because you don't have money for your clothes, or the books or anything like that. But other than that, who are some of the people you are listening to these days?

Marley Dias: Nowadays. Mach-Hommy.

1000WORD$: Fire!

Marley Dias: I just heard one song and he's been all over.

1000WORD$: He’s from Jersey. He's got a song called "Newark." 

Marley Dias: Yeah, I gotta get more into that. I've listened to a lot of B-Lovee. I've forced every person I've met here to listen to A Boogie, like every party I request A Boogie like that was like middle school, high school. A bunch of Griselda, but I prefer personally Benny the Butcher. I think he's my favorite out of them, so he's all over my playlist. And then like, Destroy Lonely, Boldy James, you know, Bktherula. I like that.

1000WORD$: Shoutout to that. I'm gonna put you on to somebody that I think you probably would enjoy listening to. His name is Ka. It's kind of tough to find them on Spotify, but he's on there. Download an album called "Hermit and the Recluse." The way that he talks on these albums, is like, he's talking to people that don't know about... like educating people on the hood like he's putting his arm on your shoulder talking on some real... you're gonna love it. I'm telling you. What about Roc Marciano? Stove God Cooks?

Marley Dias: I feel like I'm the worst person to be talking to about this.. like you're the only person that's gonna…

1000WORD$: This is not bad. This is good. This is awesome. This is us passing on information. Stove God Cooks though he just signed to Griselda. He's amazing.

Marley Dias: I think J Dilla is my icon, like I know he's not a rapper, but I'd say he's probably the greatest person to ever touch hip-hop in the history of the genre. I have no dispute on that, you know what I mean? My dad just loves him so much. And I think he's really passed down that love. Just like making rap in the way he did and everything. Like it just blows my mind.

1000WORD$: Shoutout to him. Rest in Peace, truly. I met Houseshoes who's a DJ and producer out of Detroit. He produced J Dilla's first song. He has it on vinyl at his house.

Marley Dias: Yeah, that's dope. 

1000WORD$: Would you ever consider throwing a show at Harvard?

Marley Dias: I would love to do more stuff with music there. I think we need it. Because it's also important in the way that it's like to bring those artists there and also to show a lot of the kids there that they don't actually know what they think they know, you know what I mean? It's important for them to actually be around like the culture and the community, because a lot of kids here, like, they have every type of Jordan, they have every type of Supreme, they have every type of Arcteryx. And they think that makes them automatically a part of it. And that's not the case. And it's not even to say I have either, but we have to... like communities have to come together, for the sake of both.

1000WORD$: I feel like, how can we put that together? Like, I feel like, I feel like, I'm, we could, I've been trying like to figure out like, How can I some way, get in there, you know, because I'm the way that I look at this, like the way that me and Ryan look at this with the artists that we've been like, he's been bringing to the Crimson to the Harvard Crimson. We look at his like, were ripped out, we ripped out a blank piece of paper, and we wrote our names and like the textbook and just glued it, and we're trying to figure out a way where we broke the culture to Harvard, you know, and I feel like with somebody like you as well, we could like really make an impact. Like, I feel like, like you said, there's people that think they know, but they really don't know.

Marley Dias: They really don't know.

1000WORD$: What was a CD that you bought? I mean... I don't know if you purchase CDs actually because how old are you? 

Marley Dias: I’m 18. Yeah, I never never bought a CD. 

1000WORD$: Haha, damn. What was the first song you remember downloading?

Marley Dias: I guess it was probably "Party" by Beyonce with Andre 3000. I love that song. And that was like. I love Beyonce. And I love Rihanna. But like, anytime that Andre is on a song, like even as a child, like I just loved Outkast and I still do. So I think that's probably the first song I downloaded.

1000WORD$: Who are some of the people that you look forward to like having a sit down with. You're going to approach writing about your own experiences or maybe more of like a journalist approach?

Marley Dias: More of a journalist approach, I think. I feel like talking about myself at this point, it's been really helpful to the work that I've done. But I think that it also contributes to the narrative that like, "One person will save the world, or Gen Z will save the world." And we need to have like a community, you know... it's about community, like behind me, is my mom, and my aunties and my family friends and my dad and my dog. This has all come through people that just told me from a young age that I could be who I want to be and to speak out about the issues I believe in. And I think journalism kind of allows me to highlight the other people that have been a part of that process. And I think that's kind of what Ryan has done. And I think, you know, like he he profiled all kinds of people that are a part of a community, and has slowly, but surely brought that community to light. And I want to, you know, do that. I want to talk more about and break down events that happen in pop culture. So recently, Dwayne Wade and Gabrielle Union gave a speech about their trans daughter, and how, transgender people in the Black community are often pushed aside. I wrote a think piece about that, and kind of explained that, like, they can say that and it's true, but they're also very wealthy. They also have a lot of resources to support their daughter, but how do poor black communities that have gay and trans kids, how are they supposed to, you know, show that same form of acceptance, when they don't have the resources to support their kids? So just kind of showing people that we can think about things from a different side. We can see how, even if we're talking about what is great in our community, we can talk about how money plays into it, how gender plays into it, how sexuality plays into it. And making people just think a little bit deeper about some of the things that we often take as like, these are great, these are great examples of Black excellence, Black girl magic, but consider how this applies to our entire community, not just those people.

1000WORD$: Wow, that's amazing. This was a great conversation with you, man, I appreciate you so much. Thank you. 

Marley Dias: I really appreciate it.